|
5 FEBRUARY 1940
NIRODBARAN: If it is a question of forces it should be easy to deal with them. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? Everything is due to the action of forces but it is not easy to deal with them. NIRODBARAN: Of course if some permanent structural change takes place it may be difficult. SRI AUROBINDO: The body also acquires structural and organic resistances - habits of the nerves and organs. NIRODBARAN: We speak of forces and beings. What is the difference between them? Are the forces also some kind of beings? SRI AUROBINDO: How do you mean? NIRODBARAN: I mean are the forces separate entities, like the beings? SRI AUROBINDO: The forces act through a being when they can seize on it or when the being is open to them but they do not belong to the being. NIRODBARAN: The forces are not separate entities? SRI AUROBINDO: They are a part of the universal, like the forces of Nature. NIRODBARAN: Are they self-directed? Have they some idea or consciousness behind them? SRI AUROBINDO: They are directed by the universal or the Supreme Being. The consciousness comes from the universal which is ultimately directed by the Supreme. PURANI: Are they individualised? SRI AUROBINDO: What do you mean by that? They are universal forces. For instance, the universal force of love seizes upon a man and he becomes a lover. When the force leaves him, he ceases to be a lover. NIRODBARAN: But the force that is manifested through a being is its own force. SRI AUROBINDO: The force that is manifested through the being is the universal force and the being is part of the universal support from the universal being. Both derive their support from the universal or the Supreme. SATYENDRA: We want to know if the attacks of diseases on people are attacks of forces or of beings. SRI AUROBINDO: Forces of the universal vital nature or beings. NIRODBARAN: The force of electricity or the force of Nature which causes an earthquake or a cyclone-is it a universal force or the force of the being? Page-423 SRI AUROBINDO: What kind of being? NIRODBARAN: Universal being. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it may be the action of a universal being or force. We see the force as a movement. NIRODBARAN: Sometimes people on their death-bed shout out at some invisible forces, "Go away! I am not coming with you. Oh, they have come to fetch me away," etc., etc. Are there some forces they see? SRI AUROBINDO: There are forces, or beings of the other world which they may see at such a time. Usually some parts of their being are already in the other world. NIRODBARAN (after a while): Subhas Bose seems to have hinted at a separate Congress if the Rightists come to a compromise. He says that he hoped to capture the Congress in a year but the Rightists have disregarded the rules of the game and he has no such hope now. The masses are also with them. SRI AUROBINDO: The masses are with them? Is that why he doesn't want an election in Bengal now? NIRODBARAN: It is a queer argument they have given against the election. PURANI: And did he always play according to the rules of the game? SRI AUROBINDO: Doing what he says is playing by the tales of the game? He seems to cherish many illusions, one of them being to capture the Congress in a year. NIRODBARAN: He still seems to have a big following. In Calcutta he addressed a large gathering. SRI AUROBINDO: Who says "large"? NIRODBARAN: The Amrita Bazar reported it. SRI AUROBINDO: In places like Calcutta and Bombay the Leftists seem to be large in number but even around Bombay they were badly defeated in the elections. If the Congress can get Dominion Status without any fighting or struggle, I don't see why it shouldn't accept it. It can then build up our defence and when that is ready, it can easily cut off the British connection. NIRODBARAN: Subhas calls Dominion Status a compromise. He wants independence. SRI AUROBINDO: It is a compromise on the surface but it is practically independence. You get all you want without an Page-424 unnecessary struggle. When you can secede at your will from the British connection, it is practically independence. Independence is alright if you are prepared for a revolution. But is the country ready for it? NIRODBARAN: According to Subhas it is; he says Gandhi and company are not in touch with the progressive elements in the country. So they don't know the Kisans, the Socialists, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: Can he lead? What will the Kisans do? They are strong only in U.P. When the repression starts, the Kisans will at once sinkm under militairy pressure. EVENING
Purani read a letter from Armando Menezes, written to Udar. NIRODBARAN: Another poet will be added to the Ashram if Menezes comes. Somebody complained to me that there are many poets and artists in the Ashram but very few musicians. He says that music is not encouraged and developed here. SRI AUROBINDO: It may not have developed but it is encouraged. NIRODBARAN: He says that Sri Aurobindo being a poet can guide one even in the technical details of poetry. He says that Sri Aurobindo encourages painting too. SRI AUROBINDO: I am not a painter. NIRODBARAN: you have a thorough knowledge of painting and as you don't know much about music, it does not get much impetus. SRI AUROBINDO: As a matter of fact it is the Mother who directs painting and music. NIRODBARAN: But he says that: the Mother doesn't know much Indian music nor the technique of it. SRI AUROBINDO: He seems to be an ass. Venkataraman says that the Mother used to produce many Carnatic notes in her music while Nandini complained that the Mother brought Indian mixtures into her music. NIRODBARAN: But she can't guide in the technique of Indian music as you guide in the poetry.
SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? When Sahana used to sing, the Mother could detect wrong notes at once. Music is a question of the Page-425 ear. The Mother doesn't know Indian painting. She paints in oils. So how does she direct the artists here? She is not an architect but she finds mistakes in the plans of a building or in its execution, which Chandulal hasn't seen, and afterwards the mistakes prove to be there. When we bought the new paint Silexore, nobody knew how to apply it, including the Mother, but when she took the brush and applied it, the paint stuck to the wall quite all right. NIRODBARAN: Our complainant says that music hasn't got the Divine's sanction and has no place in the future creation, Sri Aurobindo himself not being a musician. SRI AUROBINDO: That is perfectly idiotic. PURANI: I think the fault lies with the musician himself. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Romen, for instance, would have been a very great musician, but he didn't apply himself. PURANI: The trouble is that when our musicians take up music they don't try to perfect it but take it up only as a means for Divine realisation. SRI AUROBINDO: Who are these musicians? NIRODBARAN: Yes, who are they? You can't say that Dilip doesn't try to perfect his music. SRI AUROBINDO: Dilip and Sahana are people who have real music in them. But the difficulty in music is the tendency for self admiration to grow in the musician. NIRODBARAN: But so is it in poetry. PURANI: After all there aren't many artists here NIRODBARAN: Quite a lot: Krishnalal, Anilkumar, Nishikanto, Jayantilal. PURANI: Nishikanto is defunct. NIRODBARAN: Nonetheless he is an artist and there are others Champaklal, Sanjiban, etc., etc. PURANI: There are many musicians too Dilip, Sahana, Anilbaran. NIRODBARAN: Anilbaran? If he is a musician, so are you. PURANI: Anilbaran sings all right; I have a taste for music and art.. NIRODBARAN (not hearing properly): Who has a taste? Anilbaran? SRI AUROBINDO: No, he is speaking about himself. Page- 426 NIRODBARAN: Anilbaran has sent you a philosophical letter from Ardhendu's friend, you remember? SRI AUROBINDO: There are so many philosophical letters it it is difficult to remember which is which. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: This man is a Sannyasi. Anilbaran replied to him. He was very happy with the reply and wants to come to have darshan. SRI AUROBINDO: Anilbaran's darshan? (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: But he has no passage money. So he has requested Anilbaran to pay for the passage for him. SRI AUROBINDO: Anilbaran can write that he has just as much money as his correspondent. (Laughter) EVENING
NIRODBARAN (waving a foolscap sheet): Anilbaran has sent a specimen of the kind of letters he receives from people. The man has asked Anilbaran Rs. 10,000 to help him out of his difficulty and has asked for your blessings. SRI AUROBINDO: Blessings can be sent, but Rs.!0,000? NIRODBARAN: It seems this man did some good to Anilbaran a long ago and Anilbaran in return offered to help him, if he needed help at any time. This was sixteen or seventeen years ago. CHAMPAKLAL: Anilbaran says the man has always been very honest but he has been cheated by everybody. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the fate of honest people. The rule is: you shouldn't cheat but you should know how it is done. (Laughter) CHAMPAKLAL: What is your opinion about Nandalal's paintings you saw in the morning? (Purani had shown them.) PURANI: He hasn't yet seen the complete set. CHAMPAKLAL: But he can speak about what he has seen. SRI AUROBINDO: (looking at Champaklal): What I saw, I saw. PURANI: Nandlal is trying to follow the modern tendency democratic art. His modern paintings seem to be like that: for example the village minstrel. Page-427. SRI AUROBINDO: They tried to be grotesque, didn't they? PURANI: Yes. Purani again showed some of Nandalal's and Tagore's paintings that have come out in Viswa Bharati. About Nandalal's painting of Arjuna represented as Purusha Sinha (Man-lion), Sri Aurobindo said, "All I can say is that it is queer. His goat is better than this." About some of the modern paintings, he said, "Is this democratic art?" Seeing Radha's picture in a lying position, he remarked, "She doesn't seem to be sleeping." EVENING
NIRODBARAN: I find in the Life of Barodi Brahmachari that he tried to cross the Sun-world three times but failed. It seems that those who cross it don't take birth again. SRI AUROBINDO: It is the Upanishad's saying - the Upanishad speaks both of the rays of the Sun and the gate of the Sun. Those who can't pass through the rays return to the earth and are born again. NIRODBARAN: When he was leaving the body he said that if the day remained bright and did not become cloudy his disciples would know that he had succeeded in crossing the Sun-world. Is it the Supermind that is spoken of in the Upanishad? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. It is only by going to the Supermind that birth ceases. But I don't know what is meant here. In the subtle world there are many suns and moons. NIRODBARAN: We find an example of Barodi Brahmachari's unusual eyesight. Once when he was taken to court as a witness and asked about his age, he replied, "One hundred." "In that case," the pleader said, "you couldn't have seen that incident from such a distance." He asked the pleader, "Look through that window at that tree. Do you see anything?" "No," the pleader replied. Then Barodi Brahmachari said, "But I see a large number of red ants climbing up the tree." All the people were startled to find that it was true! DR. BECHARLAL: Is that outer vision or inner? Page-428 SRI AUROBINDO:: It can be either. By training one's vision one can see things at a distance. Training of the inner vision may produce a corresponding effect on the outer as well. NIRODBARAN: He used to read other people's thoughts by separating the mind from the body. SRI AUROBINDO: That is done by going to the mental plane. NIRODBARAN: When asked if he remembered the circumstances in his Mother's womb just prior to his present physical birth he replied, "All I remember is that at a certain stage I felt a great pressure jamming me from all sides. I was cramped for space. As I tried to get out, I suddenly discovered a passage and rushed out." This is the description of his condition. What interests me in this that medical science doesn't know so many things—for example, the exact cause that starts the labour pain: why should it start at the end of a particular month? The doctors can't find any scientific reason. SRI AUROBINDO: There may be two reasons. Either the body consciousness of the mother feels by some subconscient instinct that it is time for the foetus to be expelled or the foetus feels that it has reached the last stage of its development and must now come out. Science, of course, doesn't take account of these factors; it tries to explain things by mechanical laws. NIRODBARAN: One queer incident in Barodi Brahmachari's life rather puzzles me. He wanted to see by the actual sex-act if he had really conquered the sex-impulse. He found that he had and his lack of sex-impulse was not due to any incapacity of old age because he saw that his reactions were quite normal. Now why should a realised man test himself in that way? SRI AUROBINDO: Realisation is a vast field. Unless one knows what this man has realised, it is difficult to say anything. CHAMPAKLAL: Somebody has written to Gandhi that he suffers terribly from sex desire.. The sight of a woman wakes up passion in him. He can't even go out because of that. So he asked Gandhi who is a saint about the remedy and what to do in such a case. SRI AUROBINDO: Or he asked him, "What did you do?" (Laughter) Page- 429 CHAMPAKLAL: His wife has suggested to him that he keep her with him when he goes out. Gandhi praised the frankness of the man and advised him to wear blue glasses when he goes out, always to look down, not to go to cinemas and to have faith in God and aspire to Him. SRI AUROBINDO: What is the idea behind the blue glasses? PURANI: It will disguise the female form. SRI AUROBINDO: How? PURANI: Because everything will assume one colour and there won't be any differentiation, SRI AUROBINDO: That's a different matter. But if the women could be made to look hideous, it might help still more. NIRODBARAN: We are confronted with a difficult diagnosis, Although clinically the case looks like septicaemia, the blood culture is negative. SRI AUROBINDO: What does that mean? It is not septicaemia then? NIRODBARAN: One can't say that. Dr. Andre says that there is something in the blood — some infection, even though the culture is negative. SRI AUROBINDO: Then why is it negative? Can the case be septicaemia even if it is negative? If it can, medical science is not very exact. NIRODBARAN: It may be septicaemia. Sometimes one has to make repeated examinations. For instance, in T.B. one has to search for the bacillus plenty of times. PURANI: Even if they find the bacillus, it may not be T.B. NIRODBARAN: That doesn't happen. PURANI: Why? In stools they sometimes find the T.B. bacillus. NIRODBARAN: Stools are a different matter. SRI AUROBINDO: It is thought that bacilli and germs are the cause of a disease. But they may have nothing to do with it. NIRODBARAN: If not the cause, they are an instrument. In diptheria, for example, when the antitoxin is given, many patients are cured. SRI AUROBINDO: That may be coincidence. Page-430 NIRODBARAN: Coincidence in thousands of cases? SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? PURANI: If not, why in some cases does the antitoxin fail? Or why are some people attacked by a particular germ when exposed to it while others are safe? SRI AUROBINDO: Doctors don't recognise any factors beyond these organism. SATYENDRA: In homeopathy, something prior to the disease is said to be there. In allopathy, this is called "low resistance". SRI AUROBINDO: The yogic view is also of something prior. There are unseen and unknown factors which operate in the causation germs are only concomitant factors. PURANI: Otherwise I don't see why among people working in some are attacked and others escape. I myself worked in their midst but nothing happened to me. SRI AUROBINDO: I have myself removed with my own hands plague all around. SATYENDRA: I have myself removed with my own hands plague-infected rats. PURANI: Medical men sometimes build up their theories and then try to fix facts to them. SRI AUROBINDO: The difference between medical science and proper science is that in medical science one negative instance doesn't disprove the theory, while in proper science a single negative example will throw out a whole theory and the scientists will have to begin work on a new basis. EVENING NIRODBARAN: Satyendra is rather worried over A's case. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? NIRODBARAN: He thinks he is responsible for her disease. SRI AUROBINDO: How? NIRODBARAN: I started after the wisdom-tooth trouble. Although he didn't use a knife, still he thinks himself responsible SRI AUROBINDO: A knife? What for? NIRODBARAN: For cutting the gums. Sometimes one has to cut them to make more space. Page-431 SRI AUROBINDO: Why should he be responsible? X considers it a great crime to cut the gums. He denounces in strong terms all who do it. He says it causes madness in the patients. If you tell him that there are plenty of people who haven't gone mad because of it, he replies that they just don't know they are mad! (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: Perhaps just as he himself doesn't know it? PURANI: I was staggered when he said that Anilbaran ran the risk of madness if his headache remained uncured. (After some time) Dr. Kantilal has two questions to ask. First, can one have more than one Guru? Dattatreya had about twenty Gurus, he says, and profited by each. From a bird he learnt something, from a butcher something else and so on. SRI AUROBINDO: Such Gurus one can have even twenty thousand of. Why only twenty? PURANI: His second question is: Can't one make spiritual progress by seeing the Divine in the Gurus? SRI AUROBINDO: The Divine is in everybody. So he can see the Divine in all. Why only in the Gurus? NIRODBARAN: But in the spiritual teachers one can feel the Divine more easily because they have realised Him. SRI AUROBINDO: That does not mean that the Divine is not in everybody. If one actually sees the Divine, it is a different matter. But if it is a question of thinking, one can think as well that the Divine is in all. PURANI : He asks if one can't have more than one Guru and if it is disloyal to change one's Guru. SRI AUROBINDO: If one wants to get somewhere, it is better to have one Guru and stick to him. Only under exceptional circumstances can the Guru be changed. PURANI: He says he has visited many Gurus but nobody has satisfied him. SRI AUROBINDO: That is not the fault of the Gurus. If he goes on changing like that, he will get nowhere. Moreover, there will be a play of contrary influences. CHAMPAKLAL: But if one visits spiritual people one can get some help on the spiritual path. They say that Satsang has a great value in life. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, one can get some influence, but that is for ordinary people who want some good influence to help them in Page-432 their lives, not for those who want to do Yoga. Besides, even then there may be a conflict of influences -different people's good influences may also conflict. PURANI: What one has gained from one may go counter to what one gets from another. Now I understand why you asked Dr. Kantilal to quiet his mind. His mind seems to be roaming about from place to place. (Sri Aurobindo was smiling at this. ) NIRODBARAN: If organisms are not the cause of a disease, can you sum up the etiology of a disease? SRI AUROBINDO: (laughing): You have to take into consideration all the factors, from the metaphysical down to the physical. NIRODBARAN: That's why I said "sum up". What could be the direct cause of a disease? We speak of "lowered resistance", due to which one becomes vulnerable to the attacks of micro-organisms. SRI AUROBINDO: "Lowered resistance" is a vague general expression. NIRODBARAN: You have spoken of the nervous aura. If that aura is strong, no disease can come in. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, so long as the nervous aura is not penetrated, one is quite safe from any disease. Those who have strong auras are practically immune, except from some minor ailments. The resistance of the aura depends on its reaction to the impacts of life, the world, the environment, etc. PURANI: A has never been a strong girl. From her childhood she has suffered from one disease or another. Her nerves are very weak. SATYENDRA: Among these children T is the strongest. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he is strong in every way and he has a certain element of a mental common sense. He had tremendous difficulties in England but he overcame them all while M's nervous system is rather weak. Any difficulty knocks him down at once. Though apparently he has a strong and well-built body, his nervous sheath is not strong. Then why he has been attacked by asthma which is more a nervous than a physical disease. It is those people whose nervous system is weak and unstable who get asthma. NIRODBARAN: But M is said to be more receptive or psychic. Page-433 SRI AUROBINDO: Said by whom? NIRODBARAN: That is the general impression. SRI AUROBINDO: Your impression? NIRODBARAN: Not particularly mine. SATYENDRA: People here have impressions of many things which may not happen to be correct. CHAMPAKLAL: Very often people form their impressions from the Mother's way of dealing with people. Some say that those who remain near her are more receptive. Because they are more receptive the Mother keeps them with her or sees them often. They are more psychic. SRI AUROBINDO: There are many psychically advanced sadthaks whom the Mother sees only once or twice a year. Receptivity is a complex phenomenon. One may be receptive in one way, another in another way. CHAMPAKLAL: Sometimes people hear something said by the Mother about somebody and they build up a story. For example, Y was said to be very receptive and to have had a past relation with the Mother and so was called by the Mother for special pranams, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: Past relation? Receptivity is a different thing. There is no single reason for which the Mother sees people. CHAMPAKLAL: Of course, they also say that the Mother may see some people very often because of their special needs or difficulties. SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): All chat is humbug, because it is deduced by mental reasoning. If it were a question of seeing or feeling it would be a different matter. EVENING PURANI: J asks: Is there a universal plane called the universal psychic, like the universal vital or the universal mental? He thinks of the psychic as being only individual. SRI AUROBINDO: It is a mistake to suppose that the psychic is only individual or consists only of individuality. There is a universal psychic like the rest. PURANI: Is it there that the soul retires after leaving the body and gathers material for a new birth? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Page-434 PURANI: He also asks how the distinction is made in The Life Divine between Being and Non-being. Does the Non-Being come after Overmind - or before it? SRI AUROBINDO: Why is he particular about the Non-Being? You arrive at the Non-Being by following the negative path. That is to say, when you start from mind, I mean spiritual mind, you come or open yourself to the experience of Nirvana. This Nirvana is the negation of all that the mind can affirm as the Being but it is only a gate of entry into the Absolute. From this Nirvana you can either take up the negative or the affirmative path. By the negative you reach the Non-Being or what the Gita calls anirdeshyam (the intermediate). This Non-Being is the Buddhists Nirvana or Chinese Tao. The Buddhists consider it as Shunya, the Void, while to the Taoists this void, contains everything. Again, this Nirvana is not the same as the Brahmanirvana of the Gita. By following the affirmative path you arrive at the Supermind and pass through it to the Sachchidananda . In my own case, I passed to the supermind from a Nirvana which was not of the Buddhist type but a state of mere being with the most indispensable positive element. The Goraknath people also follow this affirmative way. From the point of view of realisation, there are three aspects of Brahmana - Atman or self, Purusha or Soul, Ishwara or God. The Adwaitins negate both Purusha and Ishwara and arrive at the unity of the Atman and Brahman. The Buddhists negate all the three aspects and arrive at Non-Being. PURANI: Paul Brunton has come out again with an article on Yoga in the Indian Review. SRI AUROBINDO: What does he say? PURANI: The same old thing — that Yoga must be practised for humanity, so that humanity may benefit. SRI AUROBINDO: He has always said that. PURANI: He says that now he is under the guidance of a great Yogi who doesn't want to reveal himself. The Yogi has an eminent disciple whom everybody knows If the disciple's name is disclosed , the Yogi will immediately be spotted. I wonder if he is hinting at you. Page-435 SRI AUROBINDO: Me? But I have no eminent disciple! PURANI: What about Sir Akbar Hydari? SRI AUROBINDO: He is not exactly a disciple. SATYENDRA: Perhaps Brunton himself is a disciple eminent enough? PURANI: He also says that he is not after money. The proof he gives is that if he were, he would not be contradicting his own past statements, as he is doing, and thereby risking his popularity. SRI AUROBINDO: Are people complaining that he is contradicting himself for the sake of money? PURANI: Yes. But he is contradicting himself, he says, for the sake of Truth. SATYENDRA: The trouble is that he has started being a teacher before being sufficiently a student of Yoga. PURANI: Wasn't he giving directions to people from the beginning? SRI AUROBINDO: He has formed a group of his own, I believe. PURANI: He doesn't accept the theory of World-Illusion. He says it is a theory difficult to practise in life. SRI AUROBINDO: Practise in life? Nobody practises it. No Illusionist ever does. PURANI: What Brunton means is that he cannot carry out in life the theory of Illusion. SRI AUROBINDO: He means to accept of life only as much as is needed for the body? SATYENDRA: He has spoken of an Egyptian stranger who talked to him in an Oxford accent and even knew his name. Hansraj also has written a book where another such instance is given. When he went to the Himalayas he met a Sannyasi who at once addressed him by his name and then spoke in Marathi fluently although he wasn't a Maratha. What surprised Hansraj was that he soon began to speak in English. How did he know that Hansraj knew English? SRI AUROBINDO: If he knew Hansraj's name, it was not difficult to know other things. SATYENDRA: Yes. That didn't strike me. EVENING SATYENDRA: The 13th seems to be an important date because Mars and Saturn are coming very close together on that day. Already Page-436 they are pretty close. Astrologers fear some catastrophic destruction on that occasion, a great upheaval. But Jupiter and Venus are coming together on the 21st counteract Mars and Saturn. NIRODBARAN: How can they counteract after the upheaval has taken place. SRI AUROBINDO: After the upheaval, there will be a deheaval? (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: Meennakshi's comment was, "See the goodness of God!" SATYENDRA: I replied "If God is so good, why has He planned the destruction SRI AUROBINDO: In order that you may appreciate His goodness: (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: (to Satyendra) Did you say on the 21st? SATYENDRA: Yes NIRODBARAN: On 21stFebruary it can only be my long expected Supramental Descent. (Sri Aurobindo smiled.) SATYENDRA: N is not satisfied with anything less. NIRODBARAN: Mars and Saturn must be Hitler. SRI AUROBINDO: And Stalin? By the way, the author of that book, Inside Europe, seems pro-Stalin. He says that Stalin is almost ideal except for a touch of blood thirstiness. NIRODBARAN: What will he say now? SATYENDRA: He will say that the principles are all right. The man who practises them may turn bad. NIRODBARAN: Nehru has been disillusioned. But Bose, it seems, is supporting Russia against the Finns. PURANI: Viswanath brought a proposal from Arthur Moore. Moore said to him, "Why don't you bring out a Sri Aurobindo memorial Volume on the occasion of his seventieth birthday, just as they have done for Tagore and Gandhi?" Viswanath replied, "It needs plenty of money." To this, Moore said, "All right, I will offer Rs. 500." ( Sri Aurobindo kept silent.) Various people will be asked to contribute. Perhaps Sircar will come in too. SRI AUROBINDO: Isn't Memorial meant for those who have gone away? Does Moore want me also to go away? (Laughter) Page-437 PURANI: Well, we'll call it then an Anniversary Volume. NIRODBARAN: For Tagore it is all right, because he is on the point of going away. SRI AUROBINDO: He has been going away for the last twenty years. It is like in the theatres: "Today: Last Night Performance." NIRODBARAN: Gandhi is a well-known figure and there will be many contributors. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, everybody has met him and knows about him. That is not the case with me. NIRODBARAN: Perhaps Nolini, Anilbaran and Purani will have to write in your case. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: And each will understand my philosophy in his own way and produce his own interpretation. Mahendra Sircar will come in too and there will be Veerabhadra after him. (Laughter) PURANI: Veerabhadra will equate you with Shankara or he will say that you have explained what Shankara meant. SRI AUROBINDO: That will be easier. Or it may be like the Theosophists' idea of Buddha and Shankara. You don't know what it is? PURANI: No. SRI AUROBINDO: They say that Shankara came as a disguised Buddha in order to correct what he said. Shankara, according to them, was born in the first century B.C. or A. D., I don't remember which, but in any case not long after Buddha's death. That means that Buddha realised he had committed some errors in his philosophy and came back soon to rectify them. And now it shall be supposed that I have come back as another Shankara to correct what the first Shankara said and that I am explaining either what he meant but didn't say or what he said but didn't mean. NIRODBARAN: Isn't that what Avatars do? If we accept Ramakrishna as an Avatar, we have his saying that the body is an iron cage and now you as an Avatar are saying that it is a golden temple! SRI AUROBINDO: Not quite. I say that it is an instrument of the Spirit. NIRODBARAN: Yes, an instrument to be transformed for divine service. SATYENDRA : But that transformation comes last. Some people want it to be first. The early sages called life in the body unreal because it was too much with them. They had to hammer and Page-438 hammer away at the idea that it was unreal. But after all, it is a secondary thing to achieve is the divine consciousness and not body transformation. NIRODBARAN: Sotuda has offered his pranams and informs you that he is stagnating but his body doesn't seem to be doing so. SRI AUROBINDO: Is that why he feels he is stagnating? The flesh is becoming too heavy for the Spirit? SATYENDRA: But his face is shining. SRI AUROBINDO: Then his body must be getting transformed! SATYENDRA: I hope transformation won't stop with the face. PURANI: He says it is a shame that you call him Sotuda. How can a father call a son that? SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? A father calls his daughter "Ma". Does he want me to drop the "da" and just say "Sotu"? CHAMPAKLAL: Why not? There is Bapu here — and the Mother calls him Bapu. It doesn't mean he is the Mother's father. Bapu has simply become his name. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: Sotuda is not brother Sotu. SATYENDRA: Sotuda said he saw some prophecies in which it was foretold the war would last till 1941 or 1943. SRI AUROBINDO: Good Lord! SATYENDRA: The whole world will be destroyed and Satyayuga will reign at the end of 1943. SRI AUROBINDO: Nobody will be left then to enjoy the Satyayuga. CHAMPAKLAL: It doesn't matter much to Satyendra if the world is destroyed. SATYENDRA (smiling): No, what is the use of repeating and repeating the same old thing? PURANI: To go back to the idea of Moore: there is another proposal by Nolini and me to make an anthology out of all your works. People who have read your books will select passages and from these a final selection will be made. SATYENDRA: This is something like Raja Rao's idea. PURANI: Yes, but he seems to have dropped away. SATYENDRA: Because he wasn't encouraged. SRI AUROBINDO: He found it impossible to make popular edition perhaps. I don't know how can it be done. Page- 439 NIRODBARAN: Dilip says that an English friend of his writes that Aldous Huxley has lost all his influence with publishers and modern writers since his turning a mystic. SRI AUROBINDO: Except in the New Statesman where his books are still well-reviewed. SATYENDRA: He has written only two books of a mystical kind: Ends and Means and After Many a Summer. SRI AUROBINDO: Eyeless in Gaza also. SATYENDRA: Is that mystical too? NIRODBARAN: That was the first. Meher Baba has declared Mysore to be the spiritual capital of the world. SATYENDRA: Yes, in the Sunday Times. SRI AUROBINDO: Where? SATYENDRA: Yes, Sir, it is there. You haven't seen it? SRI AUROBINDO: No. NIRODBARAN: It is in that article on birth-control. SRI AUROBINDO: I didn't see it. NIRODBARAN: It's at the end. SRI AUROBINDO: He has said that before. NIRODBARAN: He is against birth-control, calls it artificial. He advocates mental control. SATYENDRA: He also says that married life can be a great step forward in spirituality. NIRODBARAN: And that we should consider the children as the gifts of God. SRI AUROBINDO: In advocating mental control, he means that people should not have children but that if they do they must be accepted. NIRODBARAN: Yes, as God's gifts. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. If anything happens in spite of yourself you must call it God's gift. NIRODBARAN: I don't understand how birth-control can prevent incentive to mental control. SRI AUROBINDO: He means that without birth-control there will be a fear of consequences and so one has to exercise mental control. NIRODBARAN: Is that necessarily true? Page-440 SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think so. When one has an erotic impulse, one satisfy it somehow, in spite of the fear of consequences That fear won't stand in the way. NIRODBARAN: One other argument against birth-control is promiscuous illegitimate indulgence. SRI AUROBINDO: There is plenty of it already; a little increase won't matter. NIRODBARAN: But in India there is not so much. In Europe, may be. Vivekananda said that there is not a single virgin in Europe. SATYENDRA: That is too much to say. SRI AUROBINDO: Did Vivekananda really say that? NIRODBARAN: Yes, I have read it. SATYENDRA: But he said that in America many women are pure. NIRODBARAN: That may be in America. He spoke of Europe. SRI AUROBINDO: America is no better or worse than Europe. I don't know if it was different in his time. PURANI: Anilbaran was saying that in Europe couples are changing their partners. There was a case in the court about it. SRI AUROBINDO: You mean trial marriages? PURANI: No, A member of one couple is exchanged for a couple after having five or six children. SRI AUROBINDO: After having children? PURANI: Yes. The original members don't agree well, so they want to change. SRI AUROBINDO: Like having a change of air, I suppose. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: In Europe there are trial marriages. SRI AUROBINDO: Companionate marriages. The artists in Paris very often have them. NIRODBARAN: What is companionate marriage? Freedom to separate? SRI AUROBINDO: They live together as husband and wife but whenever one wants to separate one can do so. It has been found that these can be as lasting as the usual thing. NIRODBARAN: During their stay together, do they have no freedom? SRI AUROBINDO: They live just as ordinary husbands and wives do. Even in the usual marriage, each sometimes has an independent life mutual consent. Page- 441 |